linotype lead hardness

I thought wheel weights were generally a little harder than lino? A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. Straight WW seemed to lead a bit. I'm I to assume that the linotype is lighter than soft lead? Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Three pounds of pure lead for each pound of linotypeshould make a real nice alloy. I am beginning to think that if a bullet caster does not understand a little about the metallurgy of his materials he is going to be out of the hobby as sources and availability of materials either drys up or becomes restricted. For sure. Its high melting point requires better furnaces and technique than is needed for lead. The most obvious problem with silver is that it's not as dense as lead. were wieghing out around 450 gr. 50/50

2 to 1 ratio will give you 4%. Good quality bullets should have 5% antimony for modest velocities like 38 Spl and 45 ACP, and 6% for 9mmP, 357 Mag. I personally shoot a 70/30 mix of lino/wheelweights as I use the same alloy I use for the 2000fps benchrest competition. Good shooting' to y'all. If I cast a .444 Marlin bullet from lead, I want a final diameter of exactly .430 inches. Old wheel weights were fairly hard, not much different than linotype. OK for handgun and light rifle loads.As long as the bullet is sufficiently hard to handle the pressures, I care little about the excessive hardness of the alloy. Cast 200 RCBS 35-200 FN, they weigh 202 gr. Soon after that they started refitting them to cars and the supply dried up. Unless your wheelweights are different from ours, they are not hard enough for decent handgun bullets and certainly too soft for rifle. Friction (air resistance) eats away at that energy, slowing the bullet as it goes down range.

The one we're interested in is "Resistance of metal to plastic deformation". Works fine for magnum bullets and slower rifle calibers like 30-30, 30-40, 35, and 32 Spl. This has required that many of us hobby shooters work a little harder at alternative lead sources.Sure, as long as its hard enough for the job and consistent lot to lot. JavaScript is disabled. I see that one reply mentions monotype. Before you can pour metal in a mold, you have to melt it. I've been advised to at least 1/2 dozen different types including some home made ones. Never had leading problems. It is not "pure lead", but for bullet casting purposes it can be considered to be "pure" inasmuch as the small amounts of metallic elements present will not effect the casting of bullets. I have about 50lbs. Make sense? Yes Lino is lighter and it throws a bigger bullet. I have a twenty pound Lee pot which started out full of lead from wheel weights. I often blend 12% and it does not take disproportionately longer than weaker mixes. But that is true only if the linotype is a true 4/12 and the lead is pure. Thinking that my new scale was not right, I placed a 190gr sierra match king and it wieghed out 190 gr. Linotype, for example, is a commonly used "hard lead" alloy, with a BHN of 22. Basically, if a silver is fairly 'long' it's cross-sectional density (mass per unit of frontal surface area) should be high enough to give very good ballistic performance. You can blend any mix you want from any type of scrap. Lubed them with either RoosterLabs' Zambini Red or Thompson's Blue Angel. wes. I just did some today. It gets cheaper with freewheelweights. So, old coins are out, we're working with pure silver! Offhand I forget the antimony content but it is a lot more than linotype. That is not helpful, unless we're talking money not bullets. You can't beat simple lube for it's simplicity. And that's where this is heading. If a cast lead bullet is a thousandth or two oversized, it's pretty easy to re-shape it. I would try 50/50 to start (1/2 pure, 1/2 lino). Yesterday I blended assorted scrap sheet, pipe and wheelweights into a uniform200 pounds of ingots of known antimony content and hardness. The old Lyman #457125HP (hollow point). I use 50/50 lino and pure to get 7.5% antimony shot. There is, however, a line, beyond which tolerance ceases to be a virtue, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?168373-simple-lube, Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Why Choose Us? I prefer not to work with the temperatures required to melt Antimony (1149 F) because of the toxic exposure to antimony and lead fumes. I have quite a bit of Linotype that a printer friend gave me and it is harder than the WW lead that I have. I am considering going to a softer alloy to test out some of the other shooters ideas. Break out the hot-pads grandma, she's getting warm. Silver coins and old jewelry are too hard, but pure silver (bullion) isn't much harder than commonly used bullets, and should work nicely. That's real independence and that's really my message.

Duane Mellenbruch wrote: Dicko wrote: Wheelweights are a good and convenient material but it is not a good idea to rely on them or their content. In any case the diff can't be significant unless the quantity is quite high. Elemental silver has a BHN of 24.5, but is too soft for jewelry and coins. But it does take some time. I found that if I use 4 parts WW to 1 part linotype, the leading is down to a minimum, they drive a bit deeper into the target, and they dont splatter. Jeez, the mould itself is older than I am, and I'm 63! The harder the metal, the more energy is required to deform it. Someone mentioned proper sizing and that is probably the most important part of casting. At that point you have a hot bullet in the mold, which is going to shrink a little bit as it cools down to room temperature. Both have higher resale values than wheel weights. But the best approach is to use it when you can get it but be prepared to use other forms of lead when you need to. I have been working with antimony ingots and find that they will disolve into soft lead alloy given enough time and the proper conditions. In fact, I'd need to add 11.7 thousands of an inch to the size of my mold cavity. As a very rough rule of thumb, the mold should be at least a third of the molten material's temperature to perform well. I have found the average antimony content accross the board to be about 1%. Nevertheless, if you add enough "plumbers lead" to your Linotype, it will result in a softer alloythat is the only way to soften it. For proper performance, a silver bullet needs to be cast to higher tolerances than lead. I found that straight linotype would splatter on a metal target using my rcbs kieth 250gr GC. When I use it down, I will put 1 ingot of linotype to 4 ingots of wheel weight lead. The " stick on, double sided tape on" wheel weights are darn near pure lead, adding some of them to the batch should soften your harder alloy. Many would be happy to trade wheel weights or plumbers lead for your Linotype. You can ignore tin in your calcs. I can do that anytime. puts you right about 1% tin and 3% antimony. Have a question? Linotype is not reliably available but you can blend it any time you like. You don't need to worry too much about the content of scrap.

I mixed equal portions of pure lead and monotype. If you think that's more than you need,2 to 3will give you about 5%. But generallyI don't disagree with anything you've said. Enter Our Dog Days of Summer BBQ Giveaway Now! Since silver's melting point is much higher, the mold needs to be considerably hotter. Like wheel weights with an extra pinch of tin. It is one of those oddities of metallurgy. I am beginning to think that if a bullet caster does not understand a little about the metallurgy of his materials he is going to be out of the hobby as sources and availability of materials either drys up or becomes restricted. Now its plumbers lead and superhard alloy for me. I would appreciate any suggestions on how to do this? billwnr wrote: I would think this is a waste of good linotype and pure lead. In recent times the specs have gotten slack in my part of the world and my tests show that 2 - 3% antimony can be expected. 4/12 Linotype is good material for rifle bullets, but if we are talking cost, you could probably get the same alloy cheaper by adding antimony to wheelweights. bullet But I dunno why you think it gets more difficult at percentages higher than 4%. As you say, it will dissolve in lead at half its own melting temp. The CBA is a international organization of shooters who enjoy casting and shooting lead alloy bullets for competition, hunting, experimenting, and casual shooting. hardness lubing gunsamerica JavaScript is disabled. That can safely be ignored and in any case if ignored it will simply increase bullet hardness slightly which can only be good. For WW equivilent, 3-to-1 lead to lino should be about right. I agree that it is not advisable to work with lead at more than 800F. Us cheapos try to get lino for no more than $1.25 per pound, preferrably $1. In many werewolf books, the hero or heroine melts down an old silver coin or piece of jewelry (usually with appropriate sentimental value) to make the bullet that ultimately kills the werewolf. Tapping them on a hard object gave a tinny sound compared to lead. One has to hunt for lino and pure lead and when found it's not free. So a 50/50 alloy will be around 14 BHN which should be good for any handgun bullet. Both have higher resale values than wheel weights. I don't know the exact ratio you should use, I can tell you what I do and it might not be the proper mixture. I fully understand the appeal of a material that is readily available and free. Linotype is getting scarce because it is obsolete in the printing trade. That would have the benefit of consistent supply because, as far as I can gather, wheelweights are generally available in the US but linotype is scarce everywhere because of the demise of traditional typesetting. Wheelweights are still available locally for free at local gas stations. A BHN of 100 would require chamber pressures of over 140,000 psi to obturate, which is far higher than any handheld firearm is designed for. Lets be real here , Swiss cheese is only better on a burger when cheddar is not available. Duane Mellenbruch Topeka, KS. It does nothing useful for bullets and is not needed. Silver is dense enough to make an acceptable bullet. If I wanted it easy I would just buy the bullets.

All that is required is a known temperature in the oven, a consistanttemperature in that oven and attention to the time. There are a number of ways to measure hardness, but most reloaders use the Brinell Hardness Number (BHN).

The energy of a bullet after it leaves the barrel is directly related to its mass. In South Africa we have not had free wheelweights for years and linotype is rare. Getting the mold up to 207F for lead isn't too tough, but the silver mold needs to be nearly 600F. I have two bars of lynotype and a couple of hundred pounds of fluxed wheel weight ingots from years ago when I was making shot on a Littleton shot maker. But the problem with that is, weak solutions form easily (up to about 4%) As you work toward strongersolutions,it takes a lot longer for this to occur. Some of the shooters believe a softer bullet is better for that disciplin than one with lino added. I am fortunate to have collected various lead and alloys over the years. One has to hunt for lino and pure lead and when found it's not free. I used to cast a lot of 500 grain bullets for my 1886 Winchester. If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man. Duane Mellenbruch Topeka, KS I'm not sure what mixture it is. Linotype runs 21-22 BHN and pure lead is around 6. While lead may be soft, many of the alloys commonly used are considerably harder. Nothing wrong with that, its 5 or 6%. Look for your answers in our Forum and in our bi-monthly publication the Fouling Shot. Density is critical to bullet performance. Even worse, a slightly oversize lead bullet will be extruded into the barrel when fired. vBulletin v3.8.7, Copyright 2000-2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc. Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting. harden tend freshly drop cast soft age then It is the presence of thezinc that adversely affects the casting quality of the alloy. Linotype is sought after by bullet casters. Lead does not give off fumes below 900F, but above 900 it does, and the fumes are odourless and colourless.I am perfectly happy to keep using WW type alloys and then when a harder alloy is required, I can heat treat to reach max hardness and anneal to bring that hardness back down to whatever is needed. The riflings also etch into the bullet, and begin rotating it. If I manage to overcome the casting difficulties, it should be possible to get ballistic performance on par with hard lead bullets. It's going to be a learning curve just to find the best lube, not to mention the best mixture of lead alloy. Whatever they make (used to make) wheel weights out of. A silver bullet might not be so accomodating, so we need to absolutely sure they don't exceed the bore diameter. Since I do a lot of indoor shooting, I don't use it anymore, but if you shoot outdoors most of the time, it works well and it's less expensive than Blue Angel. I have linotype and plumbers lead laying around for a rainy day. As said above I just cut in pure lead until bullets drop out of the mold at the advertised weight (a pure Linotype bullet is light). For the sake of not boring you or others, I put the answer in bold. Edit: This kind of stuff interests me, so I kinda yammered on a bit more than you probably wanted. Check here for other mixes.

But I can. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I just got a new electronic scale and had some new cast 500 gr 459 cal, so I started wieghing some of my handy work. The appeal of using ww alloy isgrowing dim but not because of the weak amount of antimony. I consider that too soft but then I consider wheelweights too soft. That's good news, because it means that reloaders already have experience in loading and shooting hard materials. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. The Cast Bullet Association is an organization of shooters who enjoy shooting cast lead bullets in rifles and handguns for competition, hunting, or informal target shooting. That's part of the enjoyment. BTW, Tamarack lube worked well for me, but it's smoky. WW is .5% tin, 2% antimony, 97.5% lead. Sothe 9% antimony you have to buy, and thus your entire alloy cost is $0.60, only half what you are cheerfully paying for linotype. http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm. This process is called obturation, and is critical to accuracy. That about the hardness I was hoping for. Also, remember that chemical reactions (like oxidation) happen faster at higher temperatures. The need to flux, or possibly even create an intert atmosphere for the casting is much higher with silver than lead. They also form sharper edges from the mold. Well the 500 gr. However, that's a lot of money -- I'm going to try to accomplish the same thing by casting the bullet to the right size (or really, really close), and eliminiating the need for the resizing die to do much of anything. Made some bullets from them but the consistency wasnt good. A standard bullet mold will cast a dramatically undersized bullet in silver, so a custom mold is needed. I thought wheel weights were generally a little harder than lino? Free and easy to use. I have ~100# of linotype that came out of an old printing plant. What we think of as linotype is 4% tin 12% antimony. When I first got into casting a couple years ago I tried wheel weights and found a lot of them were zinc. I have linotype and plumbers lead laying around for a rainy day. Hence we have gotten used to working with all kinds of lead scrap. So is plumber's lead considered pure lead? As it turns out, lead melts at a relatively cool 621F. As long as the bullet is sufficiently hard to handle the pressures, I care little about the excessive hardness of the alloy. Silver, on the other hand, melts at a scorching 1761F. 5 parts PB to 1 part Lino (12% Sb) boolit's water dropped will give you about 12 Bhn, same as air cooler WW's. Its a spreadsheet that will let you plug in the values of weight for specific metals/alloys and will show percentages. I had long wondered about the apparent love affair with wheelweights. Thanks for the advice on the lube. Okay, I ggogled it. Both have higher resale values than wheel weights. In fact, some of the lead alloys being used are very nearly as hard as pure silver. The amount of rebound is different for different metals, and needs to be taken into account when building the molds and dies. I suggest 50/50 which will give you 6%. And they are not available except in small quantities and sporadically at that. Silver probably won't make a great choice for small-caliber pistols with lower chamber pressures, but for large-caliber hunting rifles this pressure is easily obtainable. of linotype left, so I don't think I'll run soon. Thanks for the input. This has required that many of us hobby shooters work a little harder at alternative lead sources. I use linotype in my match bullets and pay over $1 per pound. You can safely assume that wheelweights contain 3% antimony. It may have been a bit costly but was rewarding and certainly cheaper as FMJ's. Search on the CBA alloy calculator. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, Second Media Corp., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. I still have three or four hundred pounds of the ingots I made out of the wheel weights I got from there. Come join the discussion about optics, makes, models, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Both its melting point and it's coefficient of thermal expansion are higher. But the problem with that is, weak solutions form easily (up to about 4%) As you work toward strongersolutions,it takes a lot longer for this to occur. I am perfectly happy to keep using WW type alloys and then when a harder alloy is required, I can heat treat to reach max hardness and anneal to bring that hardness back down to whatever is needed. Of course the only result is that you'll get damn hard bullets which is OK. And for a long time blended one part linotype with 3 parts WW which was fine for my revolver shooting, and light to moderate loads in center fire rifles like the 30-06. Wheelweights are a good and convenient material but it is not a good idea to rely on them or their content. I need to soften my linotype lead to a more desirable hardness level similar to WW lead. Because there was enough linotype lead around me I always casted rifle bullets out of 100% pure lino, handgun bullets out of 50% lino and 50% pure lead. A silver bullet is going to take a lot more force, which may break the reloading press. So is plumber's lead considered pure lead? JavaScript is disabled. With lead, the old timers just started pouring and figured that the first few rounds of bullets would be junk, but they'd warm the mold up enough for it to work well.

Should I buy a hardness tester or just mix it? Dicko wrote: Wheelweights are a good and convenient material but it is not a good idea to rely on them or their content. More importantly, when a gun is fired a pressure wave slams into the bullet, deforming its base and sealing it against the bore. Still haven't decided on the lube, will probably try some of each from other casters and see how they work. The ideal bullet, therefore, packs a lot of mass in a small volume -- which is the definition of density. You can melt lead in an old soup can over a camp fire. What ever you are casting for make sure that you need to use Lino or you are wasting good alloy. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" The Apostle Paul in Romans 1:22. I am fortunate to have collected various lead and alloys over the years. The comments so far are not far off but it depends what you think linotype is and what wheelweight alloy is. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?43011-BHN-of-lead-tin-antimony, The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth?

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linotype lead hardness